Curse

Granamyr · Nov 06, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Just wondering if there's a thread out there comparing Dervish primary builds and DPS vs A/D, W/D or even R/D, Rt/D.

I did my own test with an A/D build using Wounding Strike, AoHM, Asuran Scan and averaged 145 DPS spiking with 448/s. Asuran title maxed but Kurzick only at level 10. 15>50, vamp of enchanting scythe.

I'd like to know what the most damaging primary Dervish build comes in at and then the following:

W/D - Enduring Scythe
R/D - Wounding Strike
Rt/D - Spirit's Strength, Weapon of Aggression

miriforst · Nov 06, 2010, 09:21 AM // 09:21

R/D is not for the damage, its for the energy management and the blocks.

but it was quite nerfed with the escape nerf.

**Marty Silverblade** · Nov 06, 2010, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by miriforst

R/D is not for the damage, its for the energy management and the blocks.

but it was quite nerfed with the escape nerf.

It's nerfed only in terms of PvP. I think it's a fair assumption to make that this is a PvE discussion as I don't think anyone has ever run W/D WE Scythe bars in PvP.

@OP If I get time sometime this week I'll be able to add the W/E dps tests.

miriforst · Nov 06, 2010, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

It's nerfed only in terms of PvP. I think it's a fair assumption to make that this is a PvE discussion as I don't think anyone has ever run W/D WE Scythe bars in PvP.

@OP If I get time sometime this week I'll be able to add the W/E dps tests.

what i meant was that while the warrior and the assassin gets a damage buff from their primaries the rangers strength with the scythe lies in his heavy elemental armor and strong energy management (which vs warriors endurance and critical strikes isn't that special really) making them endure longer fights.

Waldir · Nov 06, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I have seen somewhere in the forum that someone did some testing and the Rt/D did the most dmg.

Reformed · Nov 06, 2010, 02:38 PM // 14:38

W/D WE Scythe has lower average DPS than D/W ZV both running fixed attack skills (Mystic/Eremite/Protector's Strike) with no outside buffs. I wouldn't consider R/D all that practical for PvE use really so the ranking looks like this...

W/D->D/W->A/D*->Rt/D**

*A primary has consistent, reliable damage output. They lose SY! running /D however and have to load the back half of the bar very heavily with personal buffs to keep those numbers high. A lot of it is also enchant based (AoHM, WotM) relative to the A/W dagger spammer which, in my opinion, is a lot more practical.

**Rt primary is going to have a hell of a time maintaining SS/WoA and AoHM on themselves with no outside energy management (maybe impossible). Their damage if they could though should be the highest of them all.

Skye Marin · Nov 06, 2010, 03:44 PM // 15:44

I'm very confident that the A/D will easily do the most damage.

While the Warrior has a small damage buff with Strength, will need the elite for Energy management. The Ranger has built-in energy management, doesn't have much in the way of damage buffs.

With the A/D, you have Wounding Strike for your Elite, built in damage increases with crits, and energy management to boot. Throw in a Cupcake or dwarven stance, and you'll be very efficient at hitting every enemy in a mob with a deepwound and hundreds of damage with AS and fast attack skills.

For the Ritualist, you'd need some good energy management to sustain yourselves. Ultimately, the DPS from playing a Rit as a Rit (SoS, Splinter Weapon, etc...) would very likely be better for a team than playing with a scythe.

Sometimes numbers lie. It's all about what feels the best, and what you can have fun with. I've tried them all, and Assassin wins for PvE very easily.

FoxBat · Nov 06, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Ultimately, the DPS from playing a Rit as a Rit (SoS, Splinter Weapon, etc...) would very likely be better for a team than playing with a scythe.

Melee player always beats SoS. Even scythe mesmer beats SoS. SS is an awkward build, and SoS is no slouch, but melee w/support is just that overpowered compared to other options - especially when H/Hing and that's the one role heroes fail catastrophically at.

Skye Marin · Nov 06, 2010, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Yeah, maybe not DPS but overall team benefit. Spirits can absorb plenty of damage, and Splinter Weapon is essential to high-DPS melee.

Reformed · Nov 06, 2010, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

...Splinter Weapon is essential to high-DPS melee.

If you can always guarantee that you hit a particular number of targets with the AoE from it otherwise Great Dwarf Weapon is going to win. In this case it's adding base damage (which can be multiplied by BUH/AScan) to anything you hit with the scythe, plus adjacent targets, and free KD spam that doesn't wear off after x hits. I'm sure someone will ask, "Why KD them if you can just kill them outright?" to which I would say..."Why not do both?".

Schmerdro · Nov 06, 2010, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I normally don't use a scythe on my Ranger, Ritualist, nor Warrior so keep in mind that the following had a scythe that was NOT customized for those 3 professions.
I have rank 12 Kurzick/Luxon so my Aura of Holy Might was maxed.
Last thing: keep in mind that the Master of Damage has 60 armor. The Warrior and Ritualist would obviously have a higher DPS, compared to the other professions, against foes with a higher armor rating.

Rt/D -> 97 DPS with a 281 spike (14 Spawning, 10 Channeling)

Yes, my build was kinda random since energy management was a problem. I had maxed Sunspear (for Vampirism) and maxed Asuran but, if my scythe was customized, I might have bumped my DPS to 110 or so.

R/D -> 96 DPS with a 257 spike (15 Expertise, 7 Beastmastery)

I used Never Rampage Alone for a 25% IAS. My Ranger had rank 5 Asuran so Asuran Scan did only +59% instead of +75% damage. If my scythe was customized and if I had maxed Asuran, I might have bumped my DPS to 130 or so.

W/D -> 106 DPS with a 306 spike (16 Strength)

My Asuran rank was only 4 so Asuran Scan did +57% instead of +75% damage. If I had maxed Asuran and a customized scythe might have improved my DPS to 145 or so.

D -> 145 DPS with a 554 spike (15 Scythe Mastery)

I did use alcohol. My Asuran and Delver ranks were both 5 so Asuran Scan did only +59% instead of +75% damage and Drunken Master gave me a +29% IAS instead of +33%. And, this time, I had a customized scythe

. If I had maxed ranks, I might have bumped my DPS to 170 or so.

A/D -> 212 DPS with a 579 spike (16 Critical Strikes)

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I had maxed Sunspear and Asuran ranks, and a customized scythe. I don't think there was any way to increase my DPS further.

Sorry I couldn't give you a perfect comparison but that's the best I could do.

I think it's pretty clear that Assassins are by far the best scythe users and I was surprised how the Ritualist, Ranger and Warrior did less damage than the Dervish.

Gift3d · Nov 06, 2010, 09:07 PM // 21:07

assassin's best
warrior's second best

ranger and rit are total poo.

jeez, i can tell you that without doing all this research and calculations.

Xenomortis · Nov 06, 2010, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

W/D - Enduring Scythe
R/D - Wounding Strike
Rt/D - Spirit's Strength, Weapon of Aggression

A/D wins on pure numbers.
Then it's either D/ or W/D depending on the finer skill selection (if both bring Frenzy and the War doesn't bring Power Attack, the Derv wins, if the War brings Power Attack, he wins).
R/D isn't really competitive and Rit builds are just silly.

Reformed · Nov 06, 2010, 09:56 PM // 21:56

No more whining about Warriors vs. Dervishes, here is a fair comparison between 16 Strength and 16 Scythe Mastery. War has the hero to cast Mending to satisfy the bonus on Mystic Sweep that the Dervish automatically gets. Equipment as you can see is the same PvP scythe and their armor is full radiant/attunement with the exception of a Superior Strength and Superior Scythe on the head respectively. Dervishes are going to win this test in a realistic situation because a fleshed out bar is always going to have one more enchant than the War does (ZV).

Xenomortis · Nov 06, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

The trouble with that test, is that most W/Ds take Power Attack. In this simple test, PA pushes the numbers over the top.

I did several of those tests a while ago - there's still a fair bit of variance even after the full 180 seconds.

Reformed · Nov 06, 2010, 10:04 PM // 22:04

It's an apples-apples comparison of bars with respect to attributes the purpose of which was to prove that Strength has a roughly equivalent effect on average DPS compared to primary spec'ed Scythe Mastery. If you slot Power Attack it's no longer a fair comparison, and neither would it be if I left Mending off.

Xenomortis · Nov 06, 2010, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

It's an apples-apples comparison of bars with respect to attributes the purpose of which was to prove that Strength has a roughly equivalent effect on average DPS compared to primary spec'ed Scythe Mastery. If you slot Power Attack it's no longer a fair comparison, and neither would it be if I left Mending off.

I'm allowed to compare "apples to oranges"*. When two builds are competing with each other for the exact same role then it is apt to compare, certainly when the skill differences are small.
But perhaps more importantly, the "apple to apple" comparison just isn't relevant or important.

*a phrase I loathe for this reason

DigitalFear · Nov 06, 2010, 10:22 PM // 22:22

All Reformed did was compare strength versus scythe mastery, which is what this is all about; Dervs who have higher scythe mastery versus other professions who have their primary attribute. Adding different attack skills is just going to mess up the comparison.

Schmerdro · Nov 06, 2010, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Um, no, you don't get it. Warriors can use Power Attack because it's available for them, the same way that Strength is available for them. And, by the way, a Warrior could also use Counter Attack.

This isn't about (Strength + 12 Scythe) vs (16 Scythe + Earth/Mysticism), it's about what the Warrior can use vs what the Dervish can use.

NerfHerder · Nov 06, 2010, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Scythe DPS Champions, in descending order:

1. A/D-Crits 90% or more. And has the ability to Scythe attack spam and 33% IAS w/o an Elite. Freeing the Elite for WS or RS. Far superior DPS Vs other professions.

2. W/D- Very close to a ZV Derv in my experience. They really share 2nd and 3rd place. However, with the inherent AP bonus and Power Attack I would give the edge to the Warrior(but not by much). HM says Hi!

3. D/W- Zealous Vow build is going to be your best bet for DPS. Depending on the situation is even better than the W/D. Allows Attack Spamming and plenty of energy gain. Conviction is also cheap enough to bring your AR up to par with a W/D and give 50% block(with enchanted/windwalkers insignia).

Soldiers Stance offers IAS and 75% block + increased criticals, however, unless your only going to fight the master of damage the 33% IAS is negligable because you will move around enough that at least one of your attack skills should always be recharged and the activation time on the skills themselves overrides IAS. And SS E-management cant compete with ZV.

4. R/D- Its a fun option, but easily comes in 4th. The ability to Attack Spam is there and you have room for WS/RS, however spamming AoHM and Asuran Scan takes a toll on energy.

?? Rt/D- Sound like a waste of a Rt to me. Although, AoHM +Asuran Scan+ A Scythe does alot of DMG on any profession.